MU women's hoops - a winning team in a lonely gym
Despite a winning record (6-4, 1-0 NEC after Friday night's non-league win over American), MU women drew a "crowd" of 76 to Boylan Gym, that's seven-six (unless that was a typo), according to the official box score I saw on line.
Prior to the game the Hawks' average home attendance was 132 fans per game with only St. Francis, N.Y. drawing less (129 fans per game) in the 11 team NEC. That's awful, and Friday was beyond rock bottom, in my opinion.
The average home game attendance so far this season at NEC home games is 340, nothing to write home about there either, but still higher than the MU average.
As for somewhat equivalent leagues - average home attendances prior to Friday -
America East - 902
MAAC - 651
Patriot - 578
So..my question - what don't the MU women draw better, at least around 300-500 fans per game? FYI - No wise crack answers will be published. None. Zilch. Don't bother wasting my time or yours.
Any suggestions for boosting attendance?
Mine - is more true doubleheaders with the men. I know AD Marilyn McNeil feels the women's games should stand on their own. In my opinion, and she knows how I feel, while this is admirable it's not practical as the attendance numbers show.
But doubleheaders would not be a cure all. Other ideas? More promotion?
Granted, a championship caliber team would probably help. In that vein MU hasn't helped itself. . It's had decent enough clubs certainly, with no losing records since 1998. It reached the NEC final most recently in 2004 and 1999 but was blown out at SFPA both times. (It hasn't won since the 1980's) and in the last two years has suffered first round home game elimination in the NEC Tournament. That surely doesn't build the box office.
A first place regular season run and hosting the NECs, would certainly be a boost. That may be a problem this year with defending champion Sacred Heart , RMU, and Quinnipiac all playing very well but this Monmouth team may have a shot.
Yes, I know this isn't Big East caliber women's hoops, but its' really no better or worse than the above mentioned leagues and probably a number of others.
All this being said "crowds" of 132 per game are woeful. And 76?. Yeh, I know it's Xmas weekend, students aren't around, etc. But still..76? ..Yikes!!
Does this team deserve better fan turnouts? How can it gain it? Does it matter? You tell me...and the MU administration via this blog.
Again.. serious and genuine comments ONLY will be accepted.
e-mail tonygsports@aol.com
Prior to the game the Hawks' average home attendance was 132 fans per game with only St. Francis, N.Y. drawing less (129 fans per game) in the 11 team NEC. That's awful, and Friday was beyond rock bottom, in my opinion.
The average home game attendance so far this season at NEC home games is 340, nothing to write home about there either, but still higher than the MU average.
As for somewhat equivalent leagues - average home attendances prior to Friday -
America East - 902
MAAC - 651
Patriot - 578
So..my question - what don't the MU women draw better, at least around 300-500 fans per game? FYI - No wise crack answers will be published. None. Zilch. Don't bother wasting my time or yours.
Any suggestions for boosting attendance?
Mine - is more true doubleheaders with the men. I know AD Marilyn McNeil feels the women's games should stand on their own. In my opinion, and she knows how I feel, while this is admirable it's not practical as the attendance numbers show.
But doubleheaders would not be a cure all. Other ideas? More promotion?
Granted, a championship caliber team would probably help. In that vein MU hasn't helped itself. . It's had decent enough clubs certainly, with no losing records since 1998. It reached the NEC final most recently in 2004 and 1999 but was blown out at SFPA both times. (It hasn't won since the 1980's) and in the last two years has suffered first round home game elimination in the NEC Tournament. That surely doesn't build the box office.
A first place regular season run and hosting the NECs, would certainly be a boost. That may be a problem this year with defending champion Sacred Heart , RMU, and Quinnipiac all playing very well but this Monmouth team may have a shot.
Yes, I know this isn't Big East caliber women's hoops, but its' really no better or worse than the above mentioned leagues and probably a number of others.
All this being said "crowds" of 132 per game are woeful. And 76?. Yeh, I know it's Xmas weekend, students aren't around, etc. But still..76? ..Yikes!!
Does this team deserve better fan turnouts? How can it gain it? Does it matter? You tell me...and the MU administration via this blog.
Again.. serious and genuine comments ONLY will be accepted.
e-mail tonygsports@aol.com
posted by Tony Graham at 9:52 PM
29 Comments:
Tony,
While it's true that women's basketball is a tough draw, you are absolutely correct about the attendance. It is atrocious that a Division I-A basketball team, regardless of sex or classification, can't at least crack an attendance of at least 100 on a Friday night. Local students are back from winter break, and this team is worth watching. Attendance for both the men and women are down, but 76 is amazingly low. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know there has to be one, even if it just improves attendance by 50 or so. Where are the local girl's recreation teams, or youth league teams? That may be a source for increased attendance. This is something that should be alarming to the University and the Athletics Department. First the MAC gets voted down, not this. Something needs to happen about all this, I know one step problem at a time, but I'm convinced their tied in together. Thanks Tony and keep up the great work!
Try sending out free tickets to all the "locals" especially those directly around the college. Maybe they will see that a new Mac center will not affect them that much.
Quick note - I will be traveling today and off the PC. But please post as usual. I will be back on line at some point tonight.
Thank you.
Tony, they play in a high school gym.
Also, with the failure of the MAAC, things are only going to go down hill from here in all their athletic programs. Sad Sad Sad.
More local recruits?
How well do shore conference draw?
tony very exciting team always fun to watch some kind of promotional free games to the local middle n high schools could help.ps early season comment u made about not being to athletic they sure look like they can get at u n will alot of differnt players,
Tony-
What did you expect when they have the game on a Friday night two nights before Christmas. I am surprised it was that high.
Also I was surprised to find out that they actually charged for the game last night. The athletics department had to know that the attendance would be low due to the day, so they should have given out tickets for that game and promoted it as such.
Tony,
I think it also has to do with a scheduling thing. Exams are over and there was no one on campus on friday. Most students went home for the holidays after their final exams, and residental life closed all their dorms at 6pm Thursday, so no one was allowed to stay even if they wanted to watch the women's game.
And there is no way that the Patriot league averages 500 people per game for women's basketball. That number is a stretch.
Received this via e-mail from someone at the University of Buffalo and asked for and received permission to run it on the blog:
Tony, we do doubleheaders at UB and its a given in reference to
attendance. We have a kids zone at all the games, halftime entertainment
etc. The key is to get the student body involved and that takes
giveaways (t-shirts etc.) when they pick there tickets up before the
games. Once you get the study body behind you its all uphill
Some well thought out posts here:
My thoughts: 1. Granted, as stated in blog comment, women's hoops is a tough sell..
BUT
1. MU does a bad job in promoting this team (except for National Girls and Women's in Sports Day). Scheduling was no doubt a factor Friday night, but does not explain the poor showings at other games.
2. Boylan Gym is outdated but has some charm to it.
It's really not too bad by NEC standards, though that doesn't mean a MAAC is not badly needed. I beleive MU will battle this latest move by WLB fiercly in the courts and will win but it will take some more time.
3. More local recruits: would help, I'd like to see it, but is also not a cure all either. You could have a team (male or female) made up of players from Idaho and if they win championships or come close they should be a relative success at the gate.
4. As a blogger alluded..this is a fun team to watch.
and also: I got the Patriot League numbers from the League web site, that's all I can go on.
This is a serious post...What is Tom Manzo taking the season off? He used to work so hard to get the student body involved, and I'm NOT blaming HIM alone, but the fan support at games for women, and even men thus far has been disgraceful.
Im going to be genuine and honest here are my TWO problems with MU females hawks hoops, and YEs I have been to games.
1. The games are boring, just not very exciting for me anyways.
2. The Lady Hawks always go like 14-16 or 16-14 and lose first or second round of NEC. Thus nothing to get excited for.
DEBATE ME!
Yea, the University of Buffalo has been so good in men's basketball in the past 30 years. They have no right giving MU advice. We outdraw their men's team on any night.
Tom Manzo was switched to another area of the athletic department , not sure where - development maybe? - but is not involved in promotion. An avid MU rooter, he still goes to all if not most of the men's games (not sure about women).
MU did hire a person to more or less take his place...and I was introduced...naturally I forget his name - but he does not appear to be (at least as far as I have personally noticed) as visible or active as Tom though this could be a premature assesment.
Since I could be wrong I'm not gonna kabash the guy because I'm really not certain if Tom Manzo II is his job description. I'll check further and look him up next week.
He's got a tough act to follow.
Your points: 1. Games are boring.
My point: Well, it's all in the eye of the beholder I guess. To me basketball is basketball. Sure the skill level isn't the same as the men but I understand that so it's really not a factor for me, anyway.
Taken at face value the games are competitive..and MU women, at home, won in spectactular fashion over SPC on the two 3's in the final seconds and came from behind to defeat Lehigh in overtime....
I can see, though, where people would find them boring (in comparison to the men). You either like women's games and appreciate them for what they are, or you don't. That's all there is too it..
At times..men's games have not been works of art either ..remember the SPC game..it was like 3-1 SPC for about 10 minutes? - but we're always willing, it seems to overlook that.
2. Your point - Mediocrity. I addressed this earlier. Yes, 14-16, 16-14 and early NEC Tournament exits doesn't spur a mass run on tickets.
At this level women's games are a tough enough draw as it is.
BUT..as I mentioned and a blogger from Buffalo noted, the school can take a more active role in promoting the games.
To Slippery: Not debating men's attendance here...fact is UB TRIES to promote the women's games or weave them into the entire athletic fabric.
MU says..""Let's just play the women's games, period, and see how they draw."" Well, it's not working.
By the way..this season Buffalo men (8-5) averaging 3364 over six home dates. MU (3-8) in three home dates averaging 1848.
Going back to 2003-2004, when MU was 13-0 at home it averaged 2161 fans at home games( and MAAC foes are worried about crowds of over 4,000 - give me a break!) though it drew an NEC best 28,097 fans to Boylan Gym.
The above numbers from the Mid America Conference and NEC web sites.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Speaking of men's/ women's doubleheaders...
There is one Sunday as men play Loyola Marymount at 1p.m. followed by the women's game vs. Lafayette at 330 p.m.
Now this is New Year's Eve and people have places to go, people to see, etc., but I am sure men will draw well for Loyola Marymount..2000 or more I would guess....Maybe - and it'a almost too late - MU can do a some promotions for the women's game that follows....
MU women also play at home at 3 in the afternoons (Saturdays) of men's 7 p.m. home games Jan 6 (MSM), Jan. 27 (RMU), Feb. 3 (SFNY).
Why not move these games to 430 pm or 5 as pure doubleheaders and see how it works? (One of these dates may be National Girls and women's in Sports Day) which can't be moved.
There IS a pure doubleheader Feb. 23 at 5 p.m. (women) and 7 p.m. ( men) vs. Sacred Heart already arranged for TV (FSNY).
Tony I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you about the Boylan Gynasium. It's a great practice facility...thats about it. MU without a doubt needs the MAAC if they are thinking about taking their programs anywhere, mens or womens. The Boylan is interchangeable with any of the local high school gyms and was fine in the Monmouth College days. Now that MU has serious athletic programs and is looking beyond the horizon, it is time that they ditch the old and build the MAAC, and use whatever means necessary to do so.
Merry Christmas everyone.
To requote myself - "Boylan Gym is outdated but has some charm to it. It's really not too bad by NEC standards, though that doesn't mean a MAAC is not badly needed.'"
Yes... to clarify, MU desperately needs a new home for its basketball programs, training facilities, etc.
BUT...by itself as a home basketball floor, Boylan is - in my opinion - OK for the NEC. Not the best, not the worst, but OK. (this does not include leaky roofs!)
Let's, in my opinion, take a quick look at the other NEC home courts compared to Boylan.
Just the home gyms themselves, seating, atmosphere, etc., not the overall facilities.
Boylan vs. LIU - just built last year. Nice court. Doesn't blow me away though. Edge - LIU.
Boylan vs. Wagner. Gotta go with the newer court of course. But , for me, it's nothing special. Edge - Wagner.
Boylan vs. Mount - definitely MSM one of the best, if not the best home court in the NEC. Edge - MSM.
Boylan vs. Sac Heart. S Heart bigger, not much atmosphere. EVEN.
Boylan vs. Quinnipaic - Bobcats getting new 3,500 seat building in January. Edge - Quinny.
Boylan was far superior to Burt Kahn Court.
Boylan vs. CCSU - Gotta go with Boylan here. Cozier. Edge - Boylan.
Boylan vs. SFNY - SFNY was refurbished a few years back. Not that it matters. Edge - Boylan.
Boylan vs. SFPA. Edge - SFPA. But not by all that much.
Boylan vs. RMU - You may not agree with me but I prefer Boylan. RMU newer, but Boylan again cozier with more atmosphere. Edge - Boylan.
Boylan vs. FDU - have never been enamored with the Rothman Center. It's so wooden. I've seen both places packed. Boylan louder with more excitement. Edge - Boylan.
That makes it Boylan four, opponents' courts, five, with one tie.
Tony,
Merry Christmas. I vote that we bring MANZO back. I understand that he doesn't work for the Athletics Dept. at all. He was transferred to University Advancement and is doing prospecting and development.
He made it fun at all the games. Fans painting faces, cheering out and all the other things needed for home court advantage.
Perhaps..in his off hours, Tom can go "prospecting" for fans, at least for the women.
I am going to make it a point to try and reach Tom's replacement later this week....and see what they have planned promotion wise in coming weeks for men and women's hoops.
Why does National Girls' and Women's in Sports Day draw over 2,000 fans to a women's game every year?
Because of planning, planning, promotion, and promotion, and more planning and promotion.
It's not realistic to think MU can do this for every men's and women's home game but, in my opinion, there should be "special promotions" for almost every game, men and women. Maybe they do have plans for home games after the first of the year. I don't know.
Here's a thought - and it's not good if I have to be the one suggesting this (though maybe someone else has as well) -
Students could sponor a "Support the MAAC Night." Any fans (students, fans, etc. ) at that game have the option to sign a petition supporting a MAAC...and then the student president or someone like that should present it to the mayor at the next WLB Boro Council meeting.
Gee... I can't think of a better game than the FDU home game on TV..and ask TV to interview the student petition sponsor as part of the broadcast...
Hey, just a thought.
Tony-
I agree that marketing appears to have regressed. Nevertheless, the Asbury Park Press could help too. How about including women's basketball for Monmouth (and Seton Hall and Rutgers)in the sports schedule grid a la the Star Ledger? That way the community could know in advance that games are scheduled. And if I'm not mistaken, the Press used to run a "Monmouth Gameday" analysis box for each game -- now all that is published pre-game for the women is a one sentence "Monmouth vs. American, 7 PM, 88.3 FM" buried who knows where. Why can't that be brought back? Despite these comments, thanks to you for continued great coverage.
Some points you are making:
The Asbury Park Press could help too. How about including women's basketball for Monmouth (and Seton Hall and Rutgers)in the sports schedule grid a la the Star Ledger? That way the community could know in advance that games are scheduled.
My comment: I agree and I may have brought this up to the boss before (re: schedule grid) and the reason MU and RU women (not too concerned with Seton Hall) have not been included is usually a space issue.
While it doesn't seem like it would take up much space every little bit counts
but I will mention it again.
Your other comment: And if I'm not mistaken, the Press used to run a "Monmouth Gameday" analysis box for each game -- now all that is published pre-game for the women is a one sentence "Monmouth vs. American, 7 PM, 88.3 FM" buried who knows where. Why can't that be brought back?
My comment: We are supposed to run an MU women's game day box for each game, home and away. I was not working the day of the American game so I wasn't around to pester anyone to make sure it got in. But, even had I been there - again if it was space issue - it may not have made it.
The fact that the Press covers most MU women's home hoop's games and some away when we can..is more of an acknowledgement to its Division I status than anything else.
Here is the bottom line... Despite my caring in behalf of MU women's hoops and all of its athletics..it's not up to me or the Press to sell tickets or spark interest for MU athletic events. We try to cover what fans seem to care about.
I, personally, think we over due it on some specific scholastic sports, but that's an issue for another day.
It's UP TO MONMOUTH U. to promote it's own teams and attendance, etc. And then it's up to the teams to win enough to attract a decent following on and off campus.
MU men's hoops and football are previewed and covered rather extensivly because these teams draw a decent enough amount of fans and historically generate enough interest to warrent the coverage.
How can I speak to my boss in behalf of MU women's hoops and some of its other sports if the MU students barely acknowledge them?
Just to add to the last comment: When MU athletics rise to a championship level/ playing for or beyond an NEC championship) the Press usually does jump on the bandwagon.
I covered MU women's lacrosse and its run to the NEC championship and NCAAs this past spring and, last fall, myself and Steve Edelson covered the men's soccer march to the NCAAs (Steve covered the MU men's soccer game at St. John's) and the Press also closely followed the women's bid for the NEC title as well.
Soooo...if the teams do well..and spark some student/community interest, the Press will usually be there.
But to repeat..it's up to the teams to be successful enough or have enough of a following to make the coverage possible.
Spoke to the boss regarding adding MU and Rutgers women hoops to Sports Watch.
Not going to happen at this time. not enough room on that page. If you wish to pursue this further please e-mail ghenderson@app.com . he is the boss (and a nice guy, really!)
Women's game days should resume this week...
If MU women are in the running for first place in the NEC when potential showdowns loom with Sacred Heart, RMU, etc. I plan on doing advances on these games as we do for the men...
Also..tried to get a hold of the new promotions guy (Tom Manzo Jr. - no that's not his name, just kidding. I think it's Cliff Rowley) ..he and most of the athletic office staff are off this week...
By the way..it would be helpful if the MU athletic web site updated its athletic adnministration page with his name..and took out some folks who no longer work there...
Thanks for following up with your editor regarding the Sports Watch. Appreciate it
Noooo problem. Again, you may always e-mail him ghenderson@app.com
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